I read the latest news from AEPME about the possibility of announcing litters in the club magazine Carlanca and at the AEPME web site for foreign members.
I am surprised! In most European countries (and many countries outside Europe) we make x-rays according the rules of the FCI. These x-rays are very trustworthy. Why do AEPME only recognize the x-rays from the Veterinary Faculty of León? I do not know how the rules are in other European countries, but I DO know that the Danish Kennel Club does not even recognize x-rays from Spain... The Danish kennel club only reconizes HD status from countries which have written confirmation that the FCI-called HD protocol (ie rules about how dogs should be positioned on the bearing (as both knee and hip joints are in the picture) and the use of FCI's five Scale-step A, B, C, D and E. Spainhas obviously not signed that agreement. See the countries recognized by the Danish kennel club here: http://www.dansk-kennel-klub.dk/0/123
The reason why I find the rules of AEPME should be changed is the fact, that the litters which are allowed to be announced at the AEPME web are from dogs 'just' APTO - which ONLY means dogs that are NOT E... which responsible breeders would breed with dogs being E (serious)?? In my opinion that APTO is worth nothing, the right thing would be to publish the grade (A,B,C or D) and it makes me a bit upset, that foreign members of AEPME (breeders and owners) cannot announce litters in the club magazine or the AEPME web, even though they might have puppies from parents with much better x-rays than the APTO of the club.
He leído las últimas noticias de AEPME sobre la posibilidad de anunciar camadas en la revista del club Carlanca y en el sitio web de AEPME para socios extranjeros.
Me sorprende! En la mayoría de países europeos (y en muchos países fuera de Europa) que hacen los radiografías de cadera en las normas de la FCI. Estos radiografías son muy fiables. ¿Por qué sólo reconocen AEPME las radiografías de la Facultad de Veterinaria de León? No sé cómo son las reglas en otros países europeos, pero sí sé que el Kennel Club Danés ni siquiera reconoce los radiografías de España ... El club de la perrera danés sólo reconizes situación de alta definición desde los países que han escrito la confirmación de que el protocolo HD FCI llamada (es decir, normas acerca de cómo los perros se deben colocar en el rodamiento (ambas rodillas y caderas están en la foto) y el uso de la FCI cinco escala a paso, A, B, C, D y E. España, evidentemente, no ha firmado el presente acuerdo. Vea los países reconocidos por el Kennel Club Danés aquí: http://www.dansk-kennel-klub.dk/0/123
La razón por la que encontrarán las reglas del AEPME se debe cambiar es el hecho de que las camadas que están autorizados para ser anunciado en la web AEPME son causadas por perros "sólo" APTO - que sólo significa que los perros NO son E. .. que criadores responsables serían criar con perros siendo E (grave)?? En mi opinión, APTO no vale nada, lo correcto sería publicar el grado (A, B, C o D) y me hace un malestar poco, que los miembros de AEPME (criadores y propietarios), no puede anunciar camadas en la revista del club o en la web AEPME, a pesar de que podría haber cachorros de padres con mucho mejor resultados radiografias que el APTO del club.
[ Edited Mon Jul 26 2010, 06:56AM ] Best regards/Saludos Sally, Denmark My heart is for the abandoned mastines - Mi corazón es para los mastines abandonadosThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Un país, una civilización se puede juzgar por la forma en que trata a sus animales (Mahatma Ghandi) En este mundo entero, una cosa solo existe que no la compra el dinero. El feliz meneo de la cola de un perro. (Josh Billings)
Registered Member #5 Joined: Thu Oct 25 2007, 04:27PM Posts: 2
Yes Sally I agree with you. It' makes no sens for me to do another X rays of my dogs just to have it sent to Leon since I have offical valuation that is written in my dogs pedigree and a lot of countries recognise it as valuable. To me also APTO doesn not mean much. well since my dogs do not have APTO from the Veterinary Faculty of León my last litter hasn't been announced in Carlanca or on the web page.
Registered Member #149 Joined: Sun Sep 07 2008, 07:49PM Posts: 134
The club doesn't recognise xrays evaluated by the Avepa here in Spain either, only the xrays evaluated by the university of Leon are accepted in the club. ( I sent one of my discs off to the AVEPA to be able to have faster results since at times the club is slow on giving the results( not blaming the club since the university are the ones that do the testing) but it takes time at times... , we recieved the results after sending the disc to the club first the avepa over one month later- the one I recieved first was from the AVEPA, from both organisations the grade was exactly the same. One would suppose that if the xrays have been evaluated by experts that it would be enough but anything outside of the pact they have is not accepted. So its not just for the overseas breeders, they want all dogs xrays that are controlled by the AEPME to pass through this establishment - the university recieve a financial help so all xrays done by the university and passed through the university to be analized are subsidised. The problem is that the overseas litters aren't in Spain and I think to have a proper control of litters within the club AEPME, they want all dogs xrays in and outside of Spain to be evaluated by the university also I think I have read.. someone on the board of directors wants to try and have delegats in each country to be able to control the litters from what I understand, which I think is going to be very difficult considering some of the countrys are big and here there are delegats for each provence here more or less. The litter has to be controlled by signing the mount form and when the pups are born the delegat visits the breeder to afirm the litter, normally by tatooing, they have to fill in forms which has each number and name of pup, parents etc and that gets sent off by the delegat to the AEPME. I think it would be a good idea at the same time that hair samples should be taken aswell, this is also a voluntary thing at the moment. I think it will stop people from making false pedigrees in the future. The idea of the AEPME is to have more control over litters, dogs that are apto, but sometimes I think they need to have more people on the same side with the same opinions, from what I have heard from the meetings a lot of arguing goes on. Not everybody has the same opinions where the displasia controlled parents are concerned. Joanne, the truth is advertising litters in the Carlanca doesn't really work, there are only 3 magazines a year and if the litter isn't ready in time for the magazine to be published and by the time the mag is sent out and recieved its probably too late- then there is no point really. I think the adverts are better where people can contact you by your website, there are some overseas breeders advertising their websites in the Carlanca. I know its a royal pain in the butt, but if you have a copy of the discs of both of your dogs, send them to the AEPME for the future so you can have your litter announced in the AEPME page and the Carlanca. It doesn't cost you anything, all you have to do is send the discs and the rest is free. If you send them soon, the university opens in September again, and you should have your results in a few months hopefully. Then your dogs will be put in the aepme Carlanca as Apto. This is a really sticky subject, the displasia I tried my best to help to get votes for the displasia subject in the meeting and only got a few overseas votes... I wondered why, and maybe now I have my answer, because they can't advertise unless they send the xray discs off to the aepme, then maybe thats why they didn't want to vote in favor? I felt a bit let down by the majority of the overseas breeders and owners that are members, because I see people seem to care about the problem with displasia, they xray their dogs and only 3 or 4 people from overseas sent votes to me. Out of godknows how many emails I sent out some didn't even bother to ask about it, I was really peeved off cause I took ages translating the spanish letter written by a spanish breeder to let people know how important it was to continue to have only litters with both parents as apto advertised. Its not the best control true, things could be harder, but at least its some type of control, it hasn't been in that long and already there were breeders trying to get it removed,we won the vote by only a few votes, so it was close as. They don't show the results because I would say the majority don't want to show their grades.
In the canine shows, a dog can become a spanish champ being displasic with E grade there is no control on displasia what so ever,so, at least in the AEPME they have a few rules, like to be able enter the final for the championship all dogs must be xrayed and evaluated with APTO. I know Rome wasn't built in a day, but they have to start somewhere by at least having this controlled and installed to be able to make future changes to better the health of the mastin. It's a slow process because they all have to come to the same conclusion on the voting and if there are people against certain things, somethings just won't pass, not just by the members but also the decisions made by the directive, if they don't all agree on one thing its a voting system as far as I understand. Overseas breeders/ owners should send in their xrays it doesn't cost them anything only the postage. I know its a pain, but if the people want the same rights as the spanish breeders/ owners in the club we all have to do the same thing. We can't use any other results from other establishments either so we are in the same boat I am afraid, we can't have rules for one group and rules for another group because they live overseas, if overseas breeders/ owners could have their overseas xrayed results recognised then the ones inside Spain that choose to use the Avepa should also be respected, so I don't think they will allow it to happen.
WOW, Tracey, a VERY long massage from you (as usual )
First of all, the AEPME only recognizing X-rays evaluated by the Veterinary Faculty of León is in my opinion a big mistake. What is wrong with the X-rays from AVEPA, Are they not trustworthy? - and recognizing X-rays from other countries, which are made according the rules of the FCI? During the years I actually heard some bad rumors about false X-rays from the Veterinary Faculty of León (do not have prove if it is true) - but what is the difference making X-rays in the AVEPA and the Faculty of León??
There is absolutely no reason for AEPME to 'control' litters from outside Spain (in the same way they do it in Spain at this moment)...the foreign litters are controlled very well by rules from the national breed clubs (and the national kennel clubs). AEPME has to trust the rest of the world. About the idea of foreign delegates - forget it! It will never work out. Why should people outside Spain spent a lot of time controlling litters in their (big) country the way AEPME does... The way AEPME is controlling litters is in my opinion not the ideal way to 'control' (rumors/or truth again). Some bad stories about delegates tattooing litters and accepting 'false' parents...there must be other ways to verify / accept litters.
About announcing litters in the Carlanca and the AEPME web - they should in my opinion STOP announcing litters... Maybe AEPME should make a list of members of the club at the web, (instead of litter announcement) - then people interested in buying puppies could visit the breeders web sites or contact them by phone or email...
About the votes at the general meeting... well, I am sure that the reason why you did not receive votes is not as you believe... The reason why you did not receive many votes (in my opinion) is NOT that foreign members did not want to vote because of the APTO rule meaning not being able for them to publish their litters. ´ Many of the foreign members of AEPME are deeply respected within the whole word, and do actially not need to advertise their puppies at the AEPME web or the Carlanca. I think foreign members did not vote, because they did not know what opinion the persons 'running' for the board of directors of the club had/have?
What a shame that kennel clubs (worldvide?) allow E dogs to become champions. But I am not surprised, kennel clubs shows means earning money for the kennel clubs, and for the owners of champion dogs the winning of championships means selling more puppies, because most people still believe that a puppy from a champion is the 'very best choise for getting the perfect puppy'. Championships of the 'father' of a litter obviously seems very important for some breeders (it seems like many breeders do not give the same attention to the females giving birth to the litter than to the stud dog)?... I noticed that before AEPME got the rules of BOTH parents of a litter being APTO...females were almost ignored (as champions and with x-ray results (APTO=not E)
Anyway, we must indeed hope, that at shows, there are competent judges, who can easily spot if there is a Mastin with E hips ...and disqualify these mastines.
By the way here are the rules for breeding Mastines españoles in Denmark
Breeding restrictions Mastin Espanol Denmark: Award Requirements: Offspring can only be pedigreed if the dog before mating is rewarded with at least Good on a FCI / DKK (Danish Kennel Club) recognized exhibition (formerly 2nd prize - prize achieved until 31.12.2007). Applies to all dogs in the breed from the first January 2010 Hip Dysphasia demands: Offspring can only be pedigreed if both parents before mating has an official HD-status registered in DKK. DOGS WITH STATUS D OR E CANNOT BE USED IN BREEDING. NOTE, this restriction is imposed on 1 in January 2010 and applies to the entire breed. Elbow Dysphasia demands: Offspring can only be pedigreed if both parents before mating is Elbow-photographed and have an officially status registered. NOTE, this restriction is imposed on 1 January 2010 and covers the entire breed.
My 'tiny' country is ahead of the AEPME when it comes to HD rules for breeding mastines - but of course there are not any 'profesional' breeders in Denmark, it must be more difficult to change the rules in Spain?
[ Edited Tue Jul 27 2010, 07:26PM ] Best regards/Saludos Sally, Denmark My heart is for the abandoned mastines - Mi corazón es para los mastines abandonadosThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Un país, una civilización se puede juzgar por la forma en que trata a sus animales (Mahatma Ghandi) En este mundo entero, una cosa solo existe que no la compra el dinero. El feliz meneo de la cola de un perro. (Josh Billings)
Registered Member #7 Joined: Thu Oct 25 2007, 10:23PM Posts: 7
Dear Sally,
I agree also with you absolutely. I don´t understand, why only valuation from Leon is acceptable for AEPME. I am in contact with vicepresidente of AEPME Mr. Juan Silla and I sent him several mails because of this problem. I try to explain him (and whole Junta directiva) that there is not reason, why they should not accept oficial valuation of hips from other FCI countries. For me the rule - that only dogs which have oficial valuation of hips in Leon - can get mark excellent on Monografica - is big discrimination of all foreign breeders, which have oficial valuation of hips according to FCI norm. And it same with possibility announce litters at site of AEPME and in Carlanca. They answered me from Spain, that why our czech club should not accept oficial valuation from Leon.
My answer was:
Dear Juan
If AEPME would be international organization, which is the head of all mastin espanol clubs in all countries of the FCI, then it would be clear to accept oficial valuation of hips only from Leon for foreign owners. But it is different and you as vicepresidente should know exactly where the place of AEPME is. AEPME is a club for mastin espanol in Spain. Spain is country of FCI. Czech Republic is the member of FCI also and our club, which include mastines, is Moloss club CZ.
AEPME determine the conditions for breeding of mastines in Spain. But AEPME hasn´t statut of international organization, which include other clubs for mastines, so can not determine the conditions for breeding of mastines in other countries.
In my country is organization of Moloss club, which determine the breeding conditions. It is similar in Poland, where they have their own club, in Germany, Italy, France, Finland, in many countries of the FCI. Our club has four specialists, which can value hips of mastines. They make valuation according to all FCI rules. So these certificates - (from my country and from your country) both are legal. We must have the valuation from our specialists and spanish breeders must have valuation from Leon. I only ask already long time one thing - that AEPME ACCEPT for foreign owners of mastines oficial hip valuation which is done in their country (of course according to FCI ruiles).
Our conditions in my country are even more strict than is in Spain.All our breeding dogs must have valuation of hips and we can not use dogs with result E. We have statistics which say, that hips of mastines in our country are even better than have another, not so heavy moloss breeds.
This view is not just my personal opinion. Many other foreign members feel the same way. That's why I decided to write and ask AEPME officially to make changes in their conditions for foreign partners.
I give you a practical example - to have my dog as stud dog in my country, I must do in 15 months or later X-ray of hips. I go to the specialist, which has no digital X-ray. So I have x-ray in the photo. This film must stay in office of vetherinary forever (it is rule). After 1-2 years My dog looks great and I decide to go on Monografica in Spain. What to do now? Dog has 100 kg, for example, narcosis is always riskant, but to get excellent in Spain I must do again X-ray. Why, when I have official valuation of hips according to FCI norm? If AEPME accept certificate from my country, of course I can send copy of this certificate together with registration form on Monografica. I think it's easy and I don´t see any problem here.
Greetings and thanks that you are interested in my opinions Lenka
Estimado Juan,
si AEPME es la organización internacional, que es la cabeza de todos los clubes de Mastin español en todos los países de la FCI, después quedaría claro a aceptar valoración de León como obligatorio para los propietarios extranjeros. Pero es diferente y tu como vicepresidente debes saber exactamente dónde está el lugar de AEPME. Aepme es un club de Mastin español en España. España es el país de la FCI. República Checa es el país FCI también y nuestro club, incluyendo también Mastin español, es MOLOSS CLUB.
AEPME determinar las condiciones para la cría de mastines en España. Pero AEPME NO TIENE statut de la organización internacional, que se incluyen los clubes de Mastin español en otros países de la FCI, no puede determinar las condiciones de crianza de mastines en otros países.
En mi país es la organización de Moloss club, que determinan las condiciones de crianza de Mastin español en la rep. Checa. La misma que se encuentra en Polonia, donde tienen propio club, en Alemania, en Italia, en Francia, en Finlandia, en muchos países de la FCI. Nuestro club tiene 4 especialistas, que deben valor caderas de nuestros mastines. Lo hacen de valoración de acuerdo a todas las normas de la FCI, como sus especialistas en LEON. Así que estos certificados (de ambos países) son legales. Debemos tener la valoración de nuestros especialistas y criadores español debe tener la valoración de LEON. Yo sólo pido que ya hace mucho tiempo una cosa - que oficialmente AEPME admitir también la valoración oficial de las caderas de otros países de la FCI para miembros extranjeros de AEPME.
Nuestras condiciones en mi país son aún más estrictas, que tienes para mastines en España. Todos nuestros perros de cría deberán disponer de valoración de las caderas y NO pueden usar para la cría de perros HD E. Tenemos estadísticas que dicen que tienen mastines en las caderas a mi país mejor que otro, no tan grandes las razas moloss.
Esta opinión no es sólo mi opinión personal. También muchos otros miembros extranjeros piensan lo mismo. Es por eso que decidí escribir y pida oficialmente AEPME que hacer cambios en sus condiciones para socios extranjeros.
Te doy ejemplo práctico - tener oficialmente mi perro como semental en mi país, tengo que hacer aquí en 15 meses o más tarde radiografiay se deja a valorar. Voy al especialista, que no tiene digital X-ray. Así que tengo radiografia en la foto. Esta radiografía debe permanecer en el cargo de veterinario para siempre ( es la regla). Después de 1-2 años Mi perro se ve muy bien y yo decidimos que lo presente en Monográfica. ¿Y qué hacer ahora? Perro cuenta con 100 kg, por ejemplo, la narcosis es siempre riskant, pero para obtener Excelent en España me debe volver a hacer X-ray. ¿Por qué, cuando tengo oficial valuacion de caderas que cumplen todas las normas FCI? Si AEPME aceptar certificado de nuestro país, yo por supuesto, puede enviar copia de este certificado junto con el formulario de inscripción Monográfica. Creo que es fácil y no veo ningún problema en esto.
Saludos y gracias, que estás interesado en mis opiniones Lenka
Registered Member #5 Joined: Thu Oct 25 2007, 04:27PM Posts: 2
Lenka you just wrote what I was about to say. I also had my dogs Xrayed and the photo stays in the archive of the specialist that makes the descripcion of the photo so I do not have another copy to send it to Leon. I would have to take another photo which is sipmle not a good idea because tha dog need to be under narcosis. Tracey it's not about money we have to spend on another X ray it's about health of our dogs.
Registered Member #149 Joined: Sun Sep 07 2008, 07:49PM Posts: 134
I totally agree with you Sally and Lenka, I think any xray that has been evaluated by expert scientists who have qualifications to do the evaluation ( not a by a normal vet though) should be allowed/admitted by overseas breeders/ owners and also inside of Spain. As far as I am concerned an expert is an expert where-ever they are. I think they need to be more trusting too. The avepa is evaluated by three diferent people I think I have read somewhere. As far as the litters being put on, I think they should stay on, so that people can see the responsible breeders breeding with apto dogs, or if not, then they should put a list of all APTO dogs on the website, so people can look up dogs on a list - to see if both parents are apto when they are looking at litters so people can double check against the club when buying pups if the displasia is something they look at. The reason they did this was to try and prevent breeding with non apto dogs to improve the health of the spanish mastin I would think. Also people can see these litters are controlled by having both parents being apto which I think is a good thing showing responsible breeders. I really felt let down by overseas people because the person who was taking the votes looks out for the health of the spanish mastin- the problem is nothing is written in about the person they wanted to vote in etc, and their ideas. I was trying to get votes in to save this so that people could see responsible breeders , and I know its a pain that overseas breeders can't have their results recognised its not fair. But they have their rules, even though I think they need to make changes and exceptions on the evaluations. Now the new certificate which they are going to do- has to be signed by the person that evaluates the xray and also is signed by the president of the AEPME. Before it was only the president. Lenka I think you can send the xray in in xray form, I am pretty sure you can , have you asked?, the only thing it must have the dogs name on the xray, number etc and the date , Loe number if the dog has one etc. You should ask at least to find out if they will admit them. I am not saying that there are E displasic dogs as champions , I was just mentioning that they can have champs with E displasia, they don't ask for any type of grade of displasia when you compete to go in the canine society shows, we competed in Granada and in Talavera and nobody told us that the dogs have to be xrayed to enter, this is something that the AEPME do have which I think is great. The thing is someone could have a displasic dog, win a championship , become a great stud and breed, sell pups at high prices and nobody thinks that the dog could have a bad grade. I think they want to have complete control over the xrays in the club by using only one establishment. Descrepencys can be done all over the world not just in Spain with false pedigrees etc, the only way to get rid of this happening in my opinion is to do testing on the parents and puppies in the litter. I would like to see it happen on litters so people can see that they are really buying what is advertised, it would stop the rumours and frauds happening in the future. Sally. I know there are very respectable breeders throughout Europe I never said they weren't but I expected more votes from the overseas breeders/ owners aswell even if they don't want or need to put their litters on the page/ Carlanca it would have been nice to have had a bit more support from them. Only two overseas smaller breeders sent in their votes. It was really disapointing to see that more people didn't vote, they could have asked questions if they had any doubts and they didn't. I felt very let down , I can't change how I felt, but it made me wonder why? Maybe your right about the ideas,opinions of the persons on the junta etc etc but it doesn't cost anything to ask if in doubt. I know my messages are long, but so much enters my head!! abrazos Tracey.
Registered Member #149 Joined: Sun Sep 07 2008, 07:49PM Posts: 134
Joanne, can't the vet do two copies at the same time? Just an idea. We do discs at a special vet here so we ask for two copies always, our dogs aren't put to sleep completely they give them an injection but its not a general anethestic.
Registered Member #7 Joined: Thu Oct 25 2007, 10:23PM Posts: 7
Tracey, of course I can send normal X-ray to Spain. I already made it. Our Lois is valuated in Spain, Ramonet is too, I plan to do it with Sofia, because I have one more photo of X-ray. But to be sincere, not always I have two photos. Sometimes the dog sleep not strong and vetherinary wants to do it very fast and isn´t time for other X-ray, when we don´t really need it. Sometimes also I do X-ray to dog, which I don´t plan to take on Monografica. You know, to do X-ray is also not just cheap. And is many people, which don´t know about this condition. Already many foreign people asked me about Monografica and everybody was suprised from this special condition. Their dogs had X-ray and oficial valuation but go to Spain they would must do new X-ray....it is really not easy and is for my opinion uselessly riskant. I understand endeavour of AEPME, it is really nice to hear that breeders in Spain are more and more interesting in health of mastines. We all want cooperate and I think, the aim is same - to do all the best for mastines. Any foreign breeder didn´t tell that the special condition (valuation of hips for Monografica) is stupid or bad. We all understand, why it is. But it looks really very complicated for foreign breeders to come and participate. Only travel is very long (for many of us about 5000 km), very expensive and so would be really nice, if AEPME could do exception for foreign owners and accept their oficial valuation of hips. If no, only few foreign breeders will participate and I think, it isn´t surely aim of AEPME.
About possibility to announce litters on site of AEPME - I feel it also little unfair, that all APTO parents can be there published and my litters, which have parents for example HD A, can not be there published only because the parents are not valuated in Leon. If I use foreign male for example, I can not force the owner to do new X-ray for Leon or for example if I use dog here, in my country, which already has oficial X-ray. The owner surely will not go for second X-ray. It is clear, that if condition to publish litter is APTO, I can not want to publish litter, where parents are without X-ray. But why my litters, as member of AEPME, could not be published there when my dogs have hips A,B,C,D (like Apto in Spain)?
Tracey, I know you was not saying that E displasic dogs are champions... but what a shame that dogs being showed in national canine shows can be in the show ring no matter the HD-status they might have... It is great that AEPME at least only accept mastines APTOs (x-ray better than E) to participate in their shows! With that in mind, I really wonder why there was such a reluctance from breeeders against BOTH parents being APTO when breeding litters?
[ Edited Tue Jul 27 2010, 10:20PM ] Best regards/Saludos Sally, Denmark My heart is for the abandoned mastines - Mi corazón es para los mastines abandonadosThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Un país, una civilización se puede juzgar por la forma en que trata a sus animales (Mahatma Ghandi) En este mundo entero, una cosa solo existe que no la compra el dinero. El feliz meneo de la cola de un perro. (Josh Billings)
Vets have called- another emergancy and Canela is going to give blood to save the life of another dog, this is now the 4th time she has donated her blood. I am so proud of her, and also proud to help other animals by letting the vet use our Canelas blood. They need dogs that weigh over 40 kilos to do transfusions.
Sally, I accidentally pressed the submit button twice on my comment about the stray Mastin. I thought it didn't go through and pressed twice. . I can't delete the extra comment , so can you remove it for me , Thanks !
hi Franz, are you referring to the last two posts on the forum ? I have put them in spanish cause its about two monografic shows here in Spain, I copied and pasted them, one was an email that came to me, and the other was to help a friend that has organized one in Asturias, because they haven't got it on the AEPME page yet. So I thought I would just open a couple of posts to let spanish mastin owners know incase they would like to go and compete or go and watch. At the mo, I haven't got time to translate, will try and do it later on ok. xx
Sally I wrote a thread on the heat wave nearly a year ago, to move it up to the forum box again I have written a bit more so people can see it and remind them. I will see if I can find any links on it if you can't find it ok. xxx
Tracey, you are right ... It is not very hot here in Denmark, so I just forget that it is different in other countries. I think you sent a link in Spanish about about heatwaves / golpe de calor last summer, didn't you? I will try to find it,,, Thanks for reminding me Tracey
Hi Sally, Its starting to really heat up here now , so I think its a good idea to put your warning article up about heatwaves / golpe de calor for the mastin owners to read and to remind them of. un beso Trace xxx
Hi Sally, Think its about time to put the warning again about heat with mastines,(golpes de calor) the weather is starting to warm up here lots! hugs Trace x
The best advice will probably be: learn to live with it ! Some mastines have it; others don't ... Is she "just moving the air" when she is snoring ?? Nothing can be done ... Does she also makes the floor vibrate ?? Then give her a mattress to lay on ...
My beautifull mastin female sleeps with us inside the house. She snores like crazy!!! Does anybody have a sugestion or advice?? Its really funny but also imposible to sleep. Help!
My beautifull mastin female sleeps with us inside the house. She snores like crazy!!! Does anybody have a sugestion or advice?? Its really funny but also imposiible to sleep. Help!
I wonder if there is any difference in longetivity between mastines who work with / guard livestock for a living compared to those that are strictly show ring dogs or pets. Has anyone studied this? It seems to me, if a dog is allowed lots of room to safely roam and exercise, it can only assist in his living to a ripe old age. I wonder if having a 'mission' to protection some stock helps a mastine 'hang on' and live longer....? Not that competition in the ring isn't a 'mission' and I am sure there are dogs who live to show and parade before judges and are very happy, healthy dogs who live long lives.... Just pondering this...that's all... !
Do you suppose the foundation stock of today's breed when AEPME was formed, came out of a small gene pool and was there a lot of line-breeding going on? would that be the reason there are so many problems in the breed now?
I think health, temperament and workability should come first and conformation second priority. Breeders ought to goal for the "entire package" if you know what I mean..
Frans, as usual I did not express myself very well I am sure many mastines live more than 6-7 years, but many of the mastines I saw at shows - and many of the mastines who had great results in the shows - suddenly past away at the age 6-7... Quite too many... I am sure (hope) that breeders take things like overall health and longevity very serious and want to integrate these factors in their breeding-plans... I think it would be a great idea to publish "lineages" of mastines that reach a GOOD, ACCEPTABLE age instead of lineages of mastines that "produce" champions...
Sally, you say that dying at six, seven years of age is starting to become the norm. I really hope that's not correct. I also know that there are (several ? many ?) breeders -as well in Spain as outside Spain- that take things like overall health and longevity very serious and want to integrate these factors in their breeding-plans. Hmm ... maybe we should publish "lineages" of mastines that reach a GOOD, ACCEPTABLE age instead of lineages of mastines that "produce" champions. Shall we start with reviving the forum-topic on "life expectancy for mastines" ... ?
Frans, it may be a sad story behind the photo of me and Toro - the hard thing for me and my son was to loose him at such a young age... 6 years of age is not an acceptable life expectancy for a mastín. Unfortunately, Toro's untimely death is not unique. It's unfortunately not uncommon that Mastines die around age five, six seven years. That is actually quite before it approaches the norm. It's scary, especially because there just does not seem to be any interest in exploring why these Mastines had such a short lifetime.
MastinMel, yes I had a nice 'happy' birthday - NO, everthing did not went well, I crossed the line - and entered into the 'flock' of 'old people' If you ever go to Spain, and with your 'obvious passion' about the Mastín español, you really should visit Spain sometime (might give you quite a new opinion about the breed) ... it would be a very good idea to visit Gregorio, he is on my top list too... - but remember, there are many breeders/shepherds/owners in Spain that are very much 'worth a visit'
Sally, It is a very sad story behind the picture of you and Toro on the frontpage, but the picture as such is great. Not everyone who lost his (or her) mastín has a "last memento" like this.
Sorry this is late, Sally (haven't been here in a while) - hope you had a happy birthday and all went well! If I ever get to Spain Gregorio of Abelgas will be on top of the list of breeders to meet as I am quite impressed with his mastines!
[ Mastin Espanol International ]
Litter announcements (foreign members) of AEPME - Auncias camadas (socios extranjeros) de AEPME
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Carlos, will you put a photograph of Rufo at a show on mastininfo or mastingallery ? It would be very nice to see the winner 
Does she also makes the floor vibrate ?? Then give her a mattress to lay on ... 
